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#1tried
and got nice results?.Hi, this is my first post. I need some advise on a portable or handheld scanner for textbooks. You see, I have a 10 volume set of math textbooks which are hardcover, the paper size is A4. I have used a flatbed EPSON model in the past and it had good image quality in all their modes from color, grayscale and black and white.However, I am looking for something portable which can be swept or rubbed over the surface of the textbook without putting much strain on the spine. Do you know any brand or model which I could use for this purpose? I am intending to get a reasonable quality as the content has some graphics as it has geometry as part of the set and that the document can be digitalized as pdf.I did some research and found Iris 3 Book scan seems to be what I look for, but I don't know if it would work well with GIMP and which other models comparable to this you guys haveand got nice results?.I don't know if GIMP can create pdf files. My current version is 2.10.6 so can you guys help me here?. Please guide me with some recommendations because I don't know which to choose from as sites like amazon reviews have mixed opinions. Please don't say to use my android or device with some app installed. I am specifically asking for an advise on an actual scanner and the image quality of a will not provide enough resolution to letters and equations found in mathematics. So, can you guys help me?
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PixLabGimper extraordinaire
Posts: 1,434Threads: 62Joined: May Reputation: 159 Operating system(s):Gimp version: 2.10
#2Quote:I have a 10 volume set of math textbooks
Yes GIMP can import and export to PDFNow about the scanner, just my 2 cents, although I don't use those.On the screenshot below, on the left side is the type of scanner you want to use => you will ALWAYS move your hand in the wrong direction or shaking slightly without noticing it > at one point or another, thus your math formula, will be distorted or wrongly interpreted or any other type of error due to human handling factor.So yes it's cheap, but at which cost? is it worth it?On the other hand, on the right side of the screenshot I see something very stable with the scanner on an arm, thus not/less prone to error while scanning.Yes it can be way more expansive (I saw quickly on amazon some at around $250 on the cheapest side), same problem as the handled scanner, is it worth it? IMHO it seems so as it a "stable" scanner.Just my 2 cents, but it's your call, reading the reviews, the one with a picture of the result can help as wellDo you feel ok to manually slowly scan with your hand each page of those volume handling the hand scanner perfectly straight while moving down?
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Ofnuts
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#3(05-01-, 07:51 AM)
PixLab Wrote: Yes GIMP can import and export to PDF
Now about the scanner, just my 2 cents, although I don't use those.
On the screenshot below, on the left side is the type of scanner you want to use => you will ALWAYS move your hand in the wrong direction or shaking slightly without noticing it > at one point or another, thus your math formula, will be distorted or wrongly interpreted or any other type of error due to human handling factor.
So yes it's cheap, but at which cost? is it worth it?
On the other hand, on the right side of the screenshot I see something very stable with the scanner on an arm, thus not/less prone to error while scanning.
Yes it can be way more expansive (I saw quickly on amazon some at around $250 on the cheapest side), same problem as the handled scanner, is it worth it? IMHO it seems so as it a "stable" scanner.
Just my 2 cents, but it's your call, reading the reviews, the one with a picture of the result can help as well
Quote:I have a 10 volume set of math textbooks
Do you feel ok to manually slowly scan with your hand each page of those volume handling the hand scanner perfectly straight while moving down?
The thing on the right can be replaced by a smartphone or a small camera on a makeshift stand.
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PixLabGimper extraordinaire
Posts: 1,434Threads: 62Joined: May Reputation: 159 Operating system(s):Gimp version: 2.10
#4(05-01-, 09:53 PM)
Ofnuts Wrote: The thing on the right can be replaced by a smartphone or a small camera on a makeshift stand.
Quote:Please don't say to use my android or device
with some app installed.
Indeed, I also thought about it, but the OP will not be happy
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Ofnuts
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#5(05-02-, 02:32 PM)
PixLab Wrote:(05-01-, 09:53 PM)
Ofnuts Wrote: The thing on the right can be replaced by a smartphone or a small camera on a makeshift stand.
Indeed, I also thought about it, but the OP will not be happy
Quote:Please don't say to use my android or device
with some app installed.
Yes,but the image quality of modern smartphones is better than what you get with a hand-held scanner. And the other option on a stand is not going to be so cheap if the camera is as good as in a recent smartphone.
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Chemist116Newbie
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#6PixLab Wrote:Now about the scanner, just my 2 cents, although I don't use those.
PixLab Wrote:Do you feel ok to manually slowly scan with your hand each page of those volume handling the hand scanner perfectly straight while moving down?
Thank you for inserting that nice image showing those models. I do feel that you understand my needs here.I kept doing more research on my own and I found this list of recommendations on PC Magazine for which I suggest you to take a look to those models that also feature the one mentioned earlier. Yes I mean the wand type.The thing with those is that the majority is fed with a single document which rolls into the device and isn't something that you can use in a book which is binded.There is also this list which if you take a look all models there are of the arm kind you shown in the right.I guess more or less the quality will vary I don't know by how much between manufacters but due my needs I don't think it will matter much.The thing is, and this is where Gimp comes in, how do I get rid off the rounded effect or groove you see when you take a picture of a book pages?Near the edge where the page meets the spine of the book there is a curve. Some of those models come with a propietary software which will modify the image to flatten that surface so in the end there is a nice straight page.Can I do the same with Gimp?.Yes, I am disregarding the earlier comment about using a camera or an android device on a tripod as I do not have those available and I don't think it will produce the image which I am aiming at.My second doubt is, does it exist some filter to make a color image to be black and white?. No I don't mean to make it grayscale I mean a black and white image like the one you get with a xerox copy so that the letters and formulas and sketches like found in geometry can be seen more clearly or have more contrast and can be later reprinted.There is also the option of using a flatbed scanner, however I don't like this idea because it will cause strain in the spine when pressing in the reader surface and it could also damage the unit due the weight of the book. Although my collection isn't that heavy.Since you mentioned if it does worth about trying the one which is a wand. It seems that there isn't much distortion but the only way to say is by actually trying it. At this point the reason which makes me to prefer these kind over the others is that with the wand you avoid that curve or round distortion near the spine of the book. This is because you can sweep over the surface.Regarding the 10 volume set and the thing of doing it one by one. Yes I know it can sound tedious and time consuming but I don't intend to do it in one batch.I haven't took a picture of my collection, but it just happens that a guy who owns another copy has. So you can see how it looks below.As you can see it isn't really that beefy like the Encyclopedia Britannica. Its really brief and succinct and that why I want to digitalize it.All and all, what do you think?. Should I give it a try?. Can you please attend my questions as well?.
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PixLabGimper extraordinaire
Posts: 1,434Threads: 62Joined: May Reputation: 159 Operating system(s):Gimp version: 2.10
#7(05-02-, 06:39 PM)
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Chemist116 Wrote:PixLab Wrote:Now about the scanner, just my 2 cents, although I don't use those.
Thank you for inserting that nice image showing those models. I do feel that you understand my needs here.
I kept doing more research on my own and I found this list of recommendations on PC Magazine for which I suggest you to take a look to those models that also feature the one mentioned earlier. Yes I mean the wand type.
The thing with those is that the majority is fed with a single document which rolls into the device and isn't something that you can use in a book which is binded.
There is also this list which if you take a look all models there are of the arm kind you shown in the right.
I guess more or less the quality will vary I don't know by how much between manufacters but due my needs I don't think it will matter much.
EVEN the highlight on the top edge and the shadows underneath are the very-same!
, So lazy people in those website &#; just manufacturing pseudo articles by thousands....(05-02-, 06:39 PM)
Chemist116 Wrote: The thing is, and this is where Gimp comes in, how do I get rid off the rounded effect or groove you see when you take a picture of a book pages?
Near the edge where the page meets the spine of the book there is a curve. Some of those models come with a propietary software which will modify the image to flatten that surface so in the end there is a nice straight page.
Can I do the same with Gimp?.
curve bend
tool orlens distortion
tool comes to my mind, but I never tried them for that specific purpose, it also depend of the angle of view you will scan your book, I would NOT recommend to put the book on a flat surface but on something like the image below.(05-02-, 06:39 PM)
Chemist116 Wrote: Yes, I am disregarding the earlier comment about using a camera or an android device on a tripod as I do not have those available and I don't think it will produce the image which I am aiming at.
My second doubt is, does it exist some filter to make a color image to be black and white?. No I don't mean to make it grayscale I mean a black and white image like the one you get with a xerox copy so that the letters and formulas and sketches like found in geometry can be seen more clearly or have more contrast and can be later reprinted.
Colors &#; Threshold
play with the 2 cursors to fine tune which should be more black or more white (yes in the B&W example below I just tried a very quick flatten on a book with thecurve bend
this can be a good tool with a lot more care and a way bigger image )(05-02-, 06:39 PM)
Chemist116 Wrote: There is also the option of using a flatbed scanner, however I don't like this idea because it will cause strain in the spine when pressing in the reader surface and it could also damage the unit due the weight of the book. Although my collection isn't that heavy.
Since you mentioned if it does worth about trying the one which is a wand. It seems that there isn't much distortion but the only way to say is by actually trying it. At this point the reason which makes me to prefer these kind over the othersis that with the wand you avoid that curve or round distortion near the spine of the book.
This is because you can sweep over the surface.
(05-02-, 06:39 PM)
Chemist116 Wrote:PixLab Wrote:Do you feel ok to manually slowly scan with your hand each page of those volume handling the hand scanner perfectly straight while moving down?
Regarding the 10 volume set and the thing of doing it one by one. Yes I know it can sound tedious and time consuming but I don't intend to do it in one batch.
I haven't took a picture of my collection, but it just happens that a guy who owns another copy has. So you can see how it looks below.
As you can see it isn't really that beefy like the Encyclopedia Britannica. Its really brief and succinct and that why I want to digitalize it.
All and all, what do you think?. Should I give it a try?. Can you please attend my questions as well?.
(05-02-, 05:14 PM)
Ofnuts Wrote: Yes,but the image quality of modern smartphones is better than what you get with a hand-held scanner. And the other option on a stand is not going to be so cheap if the camera is as good as in a recent smartphone.
Um... I feel that you do need a wake up call, those pseudo review's website want to sell product only, they never tried the product they are supposedly to review, look at the product's picture on their website, they are all from the manufacturer website or stock photo/video, plus ALL their links to buy a product are with an affiliated ID, that's how they made a living, PC magazine, techradar and so on have content writers to write article were they need to put a certain amount of key word for SEO purpose, etc... I won't get in as it's not the purpose of this thread.Look the screenshot below, 4 different websites, same point of view of the same product,, So lazy people in those website &#; just manufacturing pseudo articles by thousands....If you want a more reliable reviews, check the 1 to 3 star reviews of buyers on amazon for example and check why they don't like itFor example the model using your hand, they mostly said that you cannot scan in the middle of the book as the edge of the scanner is too large (and there are many more complains about how to use it)Money wise...The different ones with a stand are basically just camera (I won't be surprised if they are webcam camera/sensor)! Yes you read well they are 18 to 20 Mega pixels camera on average, thus my smartphone which is an oppo A92 (it's a "free" smartphone, as every 2 years my provider give me a new with my plan, just to tell how cheap my smartphone is) can do a 48MP picture &#; way way better than those "webcam" camera on those scanner with a stand for $500.Theoretically, yes &#; thetool ortool comes to my mind, but I never tried them for that specific purpose, it also depend of the angle of view you will scan your book, I would NOT recommend to put the book on a flat surface but on something like the image below.pure black and white Yes! Go toplay with the 2 cursors to fine tune which should be more black or more white (yes in the B&W example below I just tried a very quick flatten on a book with thethis can be a good tool with a lot more care and a way bigger imageAvoiding distortion near the spineThat's a lot to scan...About what I think, you might not like itas I would go with my or DSLR on a tripodA question remain, did you search for a PDF version on the internet? https://www.google.com/search?q=Matemati...ntu&hs=98n In the end I can be wrong, all above are just my thoughtsI couldn't agree more
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Ofnuts
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#8(05-02-, 06:39 PM)
Chemist116 Wrote: My second doubt is, does it exist some filter to make a color image to be black and white?. No I don't mean to make it grayscale I mean a black and white image like the one you get with a xerox copy so that the letters and formulas and sketches like found in geometry can be seen more clearly or have more contrast and can be later reprinted.
Otherwise, as they say: cheap, fast, good quality: pick any two...
Actually a bad idea. You can definitely increase contrast to make the page background white, perhaps after equalizing the lighting over it, and the characters black. But a pure threshold is going to make pixellated edges and specks all over.Btw, this is what you get with at scanner app on an Android (Xiaomi Note7). Metal ruler included so you can ascertain how small some characters are (like the exponent "θ").
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Chemist116Newbie
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#9PixLab Wrote:Um... I feel that you do need a wake up call, those pseudo review's website want to sell product only
PixLab Wrote:Money wise...
The different ones with a stand are basically just camera (I won't be surprised if they are webcam camera/sensor)! Yes you read well they are 18 to 20 Mega pixels camera on average, thus my smartphone which is an oppo A92 (it's a "free" smartphone, as every 2 years my provider give me a new with my plan, just to tell how cheap my smartphone is) can do a 48MP picture &#; way way better than those "webcam" camera on those scanner with a stand for $500.
PixLab Wrote:A question remain, did you search for a PDF version on the internet?
Ofnuts Wrote:Actually a bad idea. You can definitely increase contrast to make the page background white, perhaps after equalizing the lighting over it, and the characters black. But a pure threshold is going to make pixellated edges and specks all over.
Btw, this is what you get with at scanner app on an Android (Xiaomi Note7). Metal ruler included so you can ascertain how small some characters are (like the exponent "θ").
Actually the purpose of the "review" was to say that I noticed that the choices for dedicated book scanners aren't too diverse in terms of models. I mean for the characteristics I've been looking. But yes I agree with you about what it is intended with those.Regarding your suggestion about Amazon, I've been doing exactly that for other products but since I am not very familiar with scanners I just wanted to ask people who have used these the most.I didn't know about that complain about the problem which arises due the edge of the wand type scanner. In the previews and examples shown it appears to be that it is slim enough to sweep covering a little bit of larger portion of the middle as when you rub through the surface you can travel tangentially to the rounded corner. For that specific reason I thought that such distortion could be minimized but it appears not. So thanks for that advise.Yes. I've seen those open book stands before. In fact there is a DIY instructable here which comes with directions on how to take pictures of the book and use it as a scanner.I took a closer look at your example and this shows a little bit my concern. How to reduce that "rounded distortion" near the middle. It appears to be that when you use the black and white filter this is aggravated. Perhaps that if you use that wedge style book stand and take a picture parallel to one page it might produce a better result?.Thank for that information, actually I didn't thought much about it. But you have a point here. But there are some aspects during postprocessing which do concern me. How do you deal with the lightning and consistency?. In a flatbed scanner there is a sensor I believe that travels through the surface and gets the image maybe this same optical principle is used in the wand type of scanner. But in the others which are the arm type and the professional model which you posted above it appears that there is something more that is done to the image so that in the end it looks nicely.I mean in the flatbed scanner and the wand type the sensor is closer to the surface rather than the camera based ones. So this "might" produce a more consistent and better result. The same as those roll based which scan a single page models. Again, I am not sure if in terms of accuracy from the megapixel aspect it would matter much. Because when you take a picture there is some separation between the source and the camera you have to control other variables as mentioned above. These have to be processed later processed.At this point, I can tell you that I might want to try the camera thing to see the result. Which app do you think will yield the better results for this?Actually there isn't a pdf version of that collection. There is a digitalized version of a compiled book from that collection but it isn't the same and the quality is not good. Probably lesser nice than your example, there are even chapters which are difficult to distinguish from some formulas.Well that speaks for itself. What app did you used for getting that image?. Actually the ruler kind of blocks certain characters and might be what I want to avoid.At this point I think in terms of quality for this is. How can I reduce the background color so it is presented as "pure" white so when it is later reprinted doesn't cause some unwanted noise?.Is there a smart filter in Gimp for that or something that you guys know?Btw, I've already uploaded my avatar but it is not displaying correctly. Why is that in the forum?. It is shown the icons of not loaded picture. Can this be fixed?. I tried to delete my picture and upload it again but the problem persists. What can I do?.
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PixLabGimper extraordinaire
Posts: 1,434Threads: 62Joined: May Reputation: 159 Operating system(s):Gimp version: 2.10
#10(05-04-, 06:40 PM)
Chemist116 Wrote: Regarding your suggestion about Amazon, I've been doing exactly that for other products but since I am not very familiar with scanners I just wanted to ask people who have used these the most.
I didn't know about that complain about the problem which arises due the edge of the wand type scanner. In the previews and examples shown it appears to be that it is slim enough to sweep covering a little bit of larger portion of the middle as when you rub through the surface you can travel tangentially to the rounded corner. For that specific reason I thought that such distortion could be minimized but it appears not. So thanks for that advise.
Yes. I've seen those open book stands before. In fact there is a DIY instructable here which comes with directions on how to take pictures of the book and use it as a scanner.
I took a closer look at your example and this shows a little bit my concern. How to reduce that "rounded distortion" near the middle. It appears to be that when you use the black and white filter this is aggravated. Perhaps that if you use that wedge style book stand and take a picture parallel to one page it might produce a better result?.
(05-04-, 06:40 PM)
Chemist116 Wrote: At this point, I can tell you that I might want to try the camera thing to see the result. Which app do you think will yield the better results for this?
very stable
tripod/place, or on a pile of DVD/BR/Books and youdon't move the book
as you do/scan/take picture of all the same side of the book's page first, you just have to crop/rotate at once in GIMP(05-04-, 06:40 PM)
Chemist116 Wrote:Ofnuts Wrote:Actually a bad idea. You can definitely increase contrast to make the page background white, perhaps after equalizing the lighting over it, and the characters black. But a pure threshold is going to make pixellated edges and specks all over.
Btw, this is what you get with at scanner app on an Android (Xiaomi Note7). Metal ruler included so you can ascertain how small some characters are (like the exponent "θ").
Well that speaks for itself. What app did you used for getting that image?. Actually the ruler kind of blocks certain characters and might be what I want to avoid.
At this point I think in terms of quality for this is. How can I reduce the background color so it is presented as "pure" white so when it is later reprinted doesn't cause some unwanted noise?.
Is there a smart filter in Gimp for that or something that you guys know?
Threshold
tool because you asked if GIMP has it, but know that @Ofnuts is absolutely right, and yes there are "filters" like the curves, levels, brightness contrast and many-many more options and ways, all natural GIMP' tools or with G'MIC to apply in many layers at once in GIMPInterleave layers
from Ofnuts to regroup the pages in proper order. Yes all that in GIMPI'm not familiar either, but that's the way I think I'll do itThis DIY is good, I would follow it. The most important is the light, a well lit page with a constant light = a better, easier and faster post processingThe cheap/desktop light one on this image is good enough with a good bulb, or use some LEDYou can put a thin white paper in front of the light or a frosted plastic book cover, you know the thing for the school, it will diffuse the light to not have a brighter spot on the page if ever you got a bright spot.Give it a try, after you like it or not, but at least you triedI don't have any particular app, I would just take pictures, then transfer all images to my computer and use GIMP &#; with the use of the G'MIC plugin first (for example for the contrast) as it can process a thousand layers at once, thus giving you time to drink a nice earl grey tea while processingThe other advantage of layers is the GIMP's crop and rotate tool, if your /camera is on atripod/place, or on a pile of DVD/BR/Books and youas you do/scan/take picture of all the same side of the book's page first, you just have to crop/rotate at once in GIMPI gave you thetool because you asked if GIMP has it, but know that @Ofnuts is absolutely right, and yes there are "filters" like the curves, levels, brightness contrast and many-many more options and ways, all natural GIMP' tools or with G'MIC to apply in many layers at once in GIMPIn the end, have a stable tripod, don't move the camera, don't move the light, don't move the book, just turn the pages, take picture of all the page on the same side, next, next, next, and you would be able to "mass" process in GIMPThen do the same on the other side of the book, then use the magicalfrom Ofnuts to regroup the pages in proper order. Yes all that in GIMP
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